135The Court has clarified that such transfer is ruled out where that risk stems from systemic flaws in the asylum procedure and in the reception conditions for applicants for international protection in the Member State during his or her transfer or thereafter. Accordingly, it is immaterial, for the purposes of applying Article 4 of the Charter, whether it is at the very moment of the transfer, during the asylum procedure or following it that the person concerned would be exposed, because of his or her transfer to the Member State that is responsible within the meaning of the Dublin III Regulation, to a substantial risk of suffering inhuman or degrading treatment (judgment of 19 March 2019, Jawo, C‑163/17, EU:C:2019:218, paragraphs 87 and 88).
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